Episode 1: The Scandal

[00:00:00.01] [Rooked theme music plays] 
[00:00:01.42] [Jess] September 4th, 2022-- two elite chess players sit down at a chess board. In the third round of action, the number one classical chess player in the world loses to a 19-year-old Grandmaster who's been making his name as the bad boy of chess. 
[00:00:18.22] [Ryan] The World Chess Champion accuses his opponent of cheating, and this ends up being the first domino to fall in what would soon become one of the most outrageous scandals to shock the chess world. 
[00:00:34.43] [Jess] This is a tale of a $400-million lawsuit. 
[00:00:41.17] [Ryan] This is a tale of unprovable allegations. 
[00:00:48.16] [Jess] This is a tale of cheating, of lies and conspiracies. 
[00:00:54.99] [both] This is Rooked: The Cheaters' Gambit. 
[00:00:59.81] [Rooked theme music fades] 
[00:01:03.71] [Gloomy synth plays] 
[00:01:11.54] [Jess] I'm Jess Schmidt. I'm a pretty good podcast producer and a terrible chess player. 
[00:01:17.09] [Ryan] And I'm Ryan Webb. I'm an okay chess player and first-time podcaster. 
[00:01:22.58] [Jess] I feel like as we wade deeper into this story, it becomes more tangled. I came into this thinking I knew for sure who was lying, who was cheating, and who was right. But I don't know if I think that anymore. 
[00:01:38.69] [Ryan] Yeah, before we started thinking about this podcast, you couldn't have given, like, less of a fuck about chess. 
[00:01:45.32] [Jess] I don't know that I do care about chess, actually. But I care about this story, because this story isn't really about chess. I mean, it is about chess, but it's also about justice and the internet... and anal beads. 
[00:02:01.19] [Object vibrating] 
[00:02:05.78] [Ryan] I do care about this story because it's about chess, but it extends far beyond simply playing the game well. People's careers are at stake. The sport itself is facing a turning tide. We're in the middle of a chess revolution, and in order for the game to maintain the growth it's been experiencing while also upholding some sense of fairness, there are some things that need to drastically change. 
[00:02:30.29] [Jess] But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here. 
[00:02:35.89] We're going to get to all of that eventually, but I think we need to start at the beginning. It's just-- 
[00:02:42.49] [Sighs] 
[00:02:42.80] It's a really long story, and it's kind of hard to even know where to begin. 
[00:02:48.38] [Ryan] Chess is a game with 32 pieces on a board with 64 squares-- 
[00:02:52.79] [Jess] Okay, I don't think we need to go that far back, at least not right now. I do want to talk about the history of chess in another episode, but for this episode, it really is just one game that set all this mess in motion. So I think what you need to know is this: There are two main players at the heart of this controversy. Magnus Carlsen has been the world number one classical player for almost a decade and is considered by many to be the greatest player of all time, the GOAT if you will. 
[00:03:22.49] [Goat bleating] 
[00:03:23.90] [Ryan] Hans Niemann is now a 20-year-old Grandmaster who's had a meteoric rise to breaking into the top 50 players in the entire world. We'll get more into what being a Grandmaster means and about both of these players later, but for now it means that Niemann is also just a really good chess player in his own right. 
[00:03:42.60] [Jess] This is what the scandal is at its core. Magnus and Hans play a game at a tournament called The Sinquefield Cup in Saint Louis, Missouri. This is considered one of the most prestigious and well-funded tournaments in all of chess. In the start of the third round, Magnus has the white pieces and Hans has the black. 
[00:04:00.78] [Upbeat piano music plays] 
[00:04:01.11] This means that Magnus plays first and has a slight advantage. 
[00:04:05.79] [Ryan] They play what is known as the g3 Nimzo-Indian. It sounds complicated, but all you really have to know is while it's been seen before in top-level chess, it isn't what's considered a main line. Magnus is basically trying to get Hans out of his preparation that he likely would have studied ahead of the game. This is what's known as theory. This tactic is typical for Magnus, and it's how he's won countless games in the past. 
[00:04:31.75] Both Hans and Magnus play fairly regular moves, but Hans seems to be gaining a slight advantage in the middle game. They trade off a bunch of pieces and go to an endgame, which the engine thinks is better for Hans, but Hans doesn't have the best pawn structure, meaning that his pawns aren't ideally positioned on the board. That could be enough for Magnus to come back and draw the game, as he's considered the best endgame player of all time by most in the chess world. So he should be fine, right? 
[00:05:00.69] To try and come back, Magnus sacrifices a pawn to create counterplay. But it's just not enough. Hans outplays Magnus in the endgame and is about to turn one of his two pawns into a queen by racing them down the board. There's literally nothing Magnus can do to stop him, so he resigns. Hans takes the sole lead of the Sinquefield Cup and crosses 2700 ELO, which makes him what is known as a Super Grandmaster-- 
[00:05:25.60] [Chiming] 
[00:05:26.34] --of which currently there are only 39 in the entire world. 
[00:05:30.45] [Jess] Okay, that was a lot of chess speak. 
[00:05:32.25] [Chuckles] 
[00:05:32.67] Here's what I think Ryan just said. 
[00:05:35.10] [Upbeat piano music plays] 
[00:05:35.49] Hans and Magnus are playing a fairly typical game of chess. There's a little bit of atypical theory going on, but for the most part, this is still normal, because Magnus usually tries to push opponents into just playing chess instead of regurgitating memorized theory. Hans holds his own and leads at least slightly for most of the game. But it's not a done deal, because Magnus is an amazing closer. Despite Magnus' best efforts to draw the game in a tie, Hans ekes out a forced win. Magnus loses. 
[00:06:07.83] To put this in perspective, Hans is the 20th player to have ever beaten Magnus with the black pieces... EVER. In an interview later that same night, Hans is less than gracious at this unexpected win. 
[00:06:22.14] [Hans Niemann] He just-- he played quite poorly, so I didn't do anything special. He just went-- well, okay, I think I played quite well. I think he's just so demoralized because he's losing to such an idiot like me, you know? It's just-- it must be embarrassing for the World Champion to lose to me. I feel bad for him. 
[00:06:37.86] [Ryan] This whole interview is actually very weird, like, more than usual for Hans. But the standout points of exceptional oddity that will be important later are this. 
[00:06:49.37] [Jess] First, when Hans is questioned about his choice of opening, he says this. 
[00:06:54.20] [Hans Niemann] Also this a3-- there was a game, Chigaev, Sarana at Sharjah. He played against Wesley So in the London Chess Classic 2018. 
[00:07:03.29] I was actually very fortunate that this opening came on the board and I looked at this today. For some miracle, I checked this today. And it's-- like, it's such a ridiculous miracle that I don't even remember why I checked it. I just, when I saw, I just remembered h6 and everything after this. And I have no idea why I would check such a ridiculous thing. But I checked it, and I even knew that the bishop b6 is just very good. Like, it's so ridiculous that I checked it. 
[00:07:34.34] I remembered this game because I was there and I was watching it. I never even checked it, so I was like-- even I played this g3 Nimzo myself, like, even five years ago. So it's not like-- maybe he should have checked my white database to see how familiar I would be. 
[00:07:48.92] [Jess] Now, Magnus has hardly ever played this opening, and according to chessbase.com, which is the official game database for all over-the-board, also known as OTB chess, the game that Hans references doesn't actually exist. 
[00:08:03.95] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:08:04.85] [Ryan] And second, the post-game analysis that Hans gives for the match can only be described as unhinged. And this is the general consensus backed by many top-level players and not just us. 
[00:08:16.49] [Jess] For example, this is commentary from Eric Hansen, a Canadian Grandmaster. 
[00:08:21.29] [Eric Hansen] But when I say the analysis is bad, like, legit, is just, like, it was incoherent. Not only was it incoherent. He was incoherent in trying to give incoherent lines. There's no luck or randomness, like, in these top-level games where you're just drifting into playing 2800-level chess. 
[00:08:44.51] [Jess] And here's a clip from Hikaru Nakamura. He's an American chess Grandmaster, Twitch streamer, and YouTuber. We're going to talk about Hikaru more a little bit later, but for now, here's this clip. 
[00:08:57.50] [Hans Niemann] I don't even need to show variations. You just look at the position. Like, okay, let's say-- 
[00:09:01.41] [Hikaru Nakamura] Wait, did he just literally say, "I don't need to show variations"? He's never played the g3 Nimzo ever. Wait, whoa, wait a second. I mean, he's never played g3 and Hans is claiming that he-- Hans is claiming that he prepped it up to move 20 before? I'm really, really sus, actually. I'm, like, more sus than I've been before. 
[00:09:18.78] [Ryan] Now, Hans has beaten Magnus before but never in a classical game. 
[00:09:23.36] [Upbeat piano music plays] 
[00:09:23.73] In case you don't know what a classical game of chess entails, it varies, but the standard for most major events, including the Sinquefield Cup, is 90 minutes for the first 40 moves, followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game, with an addition of 30 seconds per move, starting from move one. 
[00:09:41.97] [Jess] If this means nothing to you, basically, the players have a lot of time in classical chess compared to other formats where the time limits are drastically reduced, like rapid, blitz, bullet, or hyperbullet, where the games range from an hour to 30 seconds, for the entire game. 
[00:09:58.53] [Ryan] Something else you need to know is that Hans' dramatic and provocative comments after beating Magnus at Sinquefield aren't unusual for him. This was his response a month before Sinquefield in Miami right after beating Magnus in game 1 of a round of four at the FTX Crypto Cup. Not sure who's going to sponsor next year since FTX has since been outed for being completely fraudulent, but that's a whole other podcast. 
[00:10:26.13] [reporter] Hans, yesterday was a terrible day for you, and today you start out with a masterpiece. How would you summarize it? 
[00:10:32.10] [Hans Niemann] Chess speaks for itself. 
[00:10:34.08] [reporter] Is it something special doing this against Magnus, Hans? 
[00:10:37.11] [Faint footsteps fading] 
[00:10:40.43] [Door opens] 
[00:10:42.34] [Jess] In case you can't tell from the audio, instead of answering the reporter's question, Hans just walks away. To be fair, he pretty much tanks the rest of this tournament and was clearly disappointed in himself overall, but still, that's a pretty rude catchphrase. 
[00:10:58.18] [Hans Niemann, with reverb] Chess speaks for itself. 
[00:11:00.79] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:11:01.19] [Ryan] So to sum up September 4th-- Hans, the underdog, beats Magnus, the World Chess Champion. Hans gives a pretty weird but not totally out of character interview, and everyone just kind of chalks it up to Hans being Hans. But it's safe to say that the chess world goes to bed that night somewhat surprised about the day's events and eager to see how the rest of the tournament will play out. 
[00:11:26.77] [Music fades] 
[00:11:29.93] [Jess] The next day, September 5th, Magnus does not show up for his next fourth-round game. 
[00:11:35.60] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:11:35.99] Instead of playing, he tweets this: Quote, "I've withdrawn from the tournament. I've always enjoyed playing in the Saint Louis Chess Club and hope to be back in the future," end quote. The tweet is accompanied by a cryptic video clip of Jose Mourinho, the head coach of the Italian Roma football club. Here's that clip. 
[00:11:56.69] [Jose Mourinho] I prefer really not to speak. If I speak, I am in big trouble, in big trouble. And I don't want to be in big trouble. 
[00:12:05.91] [Ryan] The commentators at the Saint Louis Chess club are visibly shocked when they get the news of Magnus' withdrawal mid-livestream. 
[00:12:13.45] [Yasser Seirawan] Um, I'm told we have breaking news. It would appear that a certain World Champion, Magnus Carlsen, has decided to not play today's game. And, uh, oh, my goodness. The clock is going to be started. There's a 10-minute rule that if you don't show up by 10 minutes, you're forfeited. And Magnus is not going to play. 
[00:12:41.15] [Peter Svidler] Yeah, I'm sitting here-- I'm sitting here in a bit of a stunned silence. I don't really know how to react to this. You know, there will be some developments, I assume. 
[00:12:53.36] [Jess] Indeed, there have been more developments. Good assumption. But first, why is this so shocking? 
[00:13:00.02] [Ryan] Withdrawing from a chess tournament of this calibre is just unprecedented. It only happens in extreme circumstances. We're talking death of a close family member, not rage quitting. But that's exactly what it looks like. 
[00:13:14.96] [Jess] From an outside perspective, it looks as if the world's foremost chess player is upset that he lost and is throwing a hissy fit. 
[00:13:22.85] [Baby crying, screeching] 
[00:13:27.47] In videos of Magnus losing other games, you can see his disappointment clearly from his body language. He's known for slamming his fist on tables, roughly shaking opponent's hands. Sometimes he curses. He is the opposite of composed in these clips, just like any human chess player can be after a disappointing loss. And while he does not do any of this when he loses to Hans at Sinquefield, we do know that there's been other times where Magnus has not been a good loser. 
[00:13:56.83] This is what Bill Cole had to say about sportsmanship in chess. He's known as the mental game coach. We're going to hear more from him in a later episode. 
[00:14:05.29] [Bill Cole] And you have to be comfortable managing conflict, and mediating it, and all that stuff. And if you don't have the skills, you're really uncomfortable, then you kind of shut down. If you have the skills, you're more powerful, you're more focused, you're more grounded. You can self-regulate. You keep your act together if you have the skills. 
[00:14:24.79] [Upbeat piano music plays] 
[00:14:25.12] [Ryan] Now, there's something else you need to understand about chess. All of what we've been talking about so far has been what we referred to earlier as OTB, which, again, stands for over the board. This is how elite chess games have been played for the 2000 plus years that it's existed in some form or another. Two players sit at a chessboard and battle it out in person. 
[00:14:47.24] [Jess] But this is not the only medium for playing chess. Since even before the dawn of the internet, there's been computerized chess in some form or another. And now, not only is online chess continuing to grow in popularity, streaming has also been a huge game changer. This is a quote from James Canty III. He's a streamer, and he also holds the title of FIDE Master. That's a pretty big deal. We're going to hear more from him in another episode. But for now, this is what he had to say about streaming. 
[00:15:18.56] [James Canty III] There are people that are not good at chess, just period. But they are good at streaming. They're good at entertainment. So there's money there. There's money there. There's an avenue there. So it's a TV show. People want to see their TV show-- like Walking Dead at the time, when that was a thing. It was like, they know that Walking Dead comes on Sunday at 9pm Eastern every Sunday. And so, they look to see you. It's a show. So same thing at Twitch, it's entertainment and it's a show. 
[00:15:41.21] So the worst streams are the ones that you're only looking at the board and that's it. You're not talking to the chat. You're not being interactive. Like, it's an interactive thing. People want to be talked to. 
[00:15:52.72] [Ryan] Chess streamers garner millions of views online, mostly on Twitch and YouTube, and this world of chess encompasses way more than just gameplay. Big players talk strategies, techniques, and theory. They review major and minor games, and commentate on events as they're unfolding. 
[00:16:10.09] The world of online chess is mostly separate from OTB chess, and we'll get into more of the nuance of that later. But all you need to know right now is that there is over-the-board chess and there's online chess, and they're governed by separate bodies. 
[00:16:24.13] [Jess] At an event like the Sinquefield Cup, even though the games are played OTB, spectatorship stretches way beyond the limit of who can fit in the room. It's streamed, with chess influencers watching games live on camera. And they have a huge following while they do it. 
[00:16:39.70] [Ryan] One of the biggest names in chess streaming is Hikaru Nakamura. He's currently ranked as the world number five classical chess player at the time of this recording. He considers himself a streamer first and a chess player second. 
[00:16:53.89] He was watching the Sinquefield Cup, and he even did some live commentary for the tournament on the Saint Louis Chess Club YouTube channel. 
[00:17:00.37] [Upbeat piano music plays] 
[00:17:00.85] [Jess] Hikaru sees the game between Hans and Magnus. He sees Hans' interview afterwards. And, in fact-- here we go, now we're on track again for the story-- Hikaru was commentating when Magnus didn't show up for the next match. 
[00:17:14.75] [Ryan] In a flurry of confusion, the chess world realizes altogether what has just happened, and they're shocked beyond words. This is what Hikaru says on his livestream when his viewers notify him of Magnus' withdrawal tweet and he reads it for the first time. 
[00:17:30.20] [Hikaru Nakamura] Did Magnus make a tweet? I doubt it. But you guys could be having some fun. Wait, what?! Mag-- Wait, what the heck? Wait. Wait, what the heck? Magnus made a tweet? What the heck? Wait, whoa, whoa, what the heck is this? Wait a second! 
[00:17:47.78] Oh, my gosh. I can't-- I mean... Oh, my gosh, what am I-- what am I even supposed to say? I'm at a loss for-- I'm at a loss for words, too. 
[00:18:01.71] I'm not speculating. I am not speculating. I'm not speculating either on the topic right now. Not speculating. 
[00:18:08.25] [Hikaru Nakamura, synthesized voice with reverb] Wait, what the heck? 
[00:18:09.99] [Ryan] This is, in fact, not the only thing Hikaru had to say on this topic. He then goes on to say to his viewers... 
[00:18:17.01] [Hikaru Nakamura] This is probably something I should not say, but I will say this anyway, which is there was a period of over six months where Hans did not play any prize money tournaments on chess.com. That is the one thing that I'm going to say. And that is the only thing that I'm going to say on this topic. My lips are sealed. That's the only thing that I'm going to say for right now. 
[00:18:34.38] [Ryan] Did you catch that? Here it is again later in the same stream. 
[00:18:38.13] [Hikaru Nakamura] I told you the one thing already, which is 100% clear, which is that there was a period of time when Hans was not allowed to play tournaments for prize money on chess.com. That is the one bit that I said earlier in the stream. I'm saying it again, and, I mean, I think you guys understand what that means. 
[00:18:54.36] [Jess] If you don't know what it means, the reason Hikaru is being so cagey is he's implying that Hans was banned from chess.com for cheating. And that's true. We know that's true, because Hans admits it in an interview. 
[00:19:08.99] [Hans Niemann] So, first of all, there's the situation with chess.com. Now, people have said that my chess.com was banned twice. Okay. So this is what happened. When I was 12 years old, I was with a friend, and I was playing Titled Tuesday. And I was playing, and he came over on an iPad with an engine, and I was 12 years old, and he said, you know-- he started giving me the moves. I was a child. I had no idea what happened. 
[00:19:34.06] Now, this happened once in an online tournament. I was just a child. And nothing happened then. 
[00:19:43.07] [Upbeat music plays] 
[00:19:43.45] [Ryan] There's so much to unpack in this clip. Firstly, Hans mentions Titled Tuesday. This is an online chess.com event that happens-- you guessed it-- every Tuesday. The winner doesn't get a tonne of money, but it matters that it is a paid tournament, which Hans highlights. This is where he says he cheated with an engine. We'll get more into chess engines later, but basically, it's using a computer to give you the best moves in any given instance. This is straight up just cheating, he is banned as a consequence, and Hans writes this moral failing off to just being a 12-year-old kid who didn't know any better. 
[00:20:22.93] [Jess] The second instance of banning Hans addresses in this interview was when he was 16 and had a streaming career. 
[00:20:29.08] [Hans Niemann] But other than when I was 12, I have never, ever in my life cheated in an over-the-board game, in an online tournament. They were in unrated games. And I'm admitting this, and I'm saying my truth, because I do not want any misrepresentation. 
[00:20:40.06] I am proud of myself that I learned from that mistake and now have given everything to chess. I have sacrificed everything for chess, and I do everything I can to improve. 
[00:20:48.86] So I'm going to get started. Basically, I wanted to gain some rating. You know, I just wanted to get higher rated so I could play stronger players. So I cheated in random games on chess.com. Now, I was confronted, I confessed, and this is the single biggest mistake of my life, and I am completely ashamed. And I'm telling the world because I do not want any misrepresentation, and I do not want rumours. 
[00:21:10.26] I have never cheated in an over-the-board game. Other than when I was 12 years old, I have never, ever, ever-- and I would never do that, that is the worst thing I could ever do-- cheat in a tournament with prize money. Now, I made that mistake, and this is not something I was doing consistently. Never when I was streaming did I cheat. Never did I misrepresent my strength. 
[00:21:28.67] So I made this mistake. I was confronted by chess.com. I fully admitted, and I stopped playing on chess.com. 
[00:21:34.64] [Jess] He clarifies that when he cheated at this point in time, it was never while streaming, so no witnesses, and not for titled or paid games. He says that even while he was cheating, he never misrepresented his actual skill level. 
[00:21:49.19] Now, this is possible. It can take a long time and a lot of games to naturally increase your rating, even if you're a great player. That's just how most rating systems work. However, this is still cheating. 
[00:22:03.68] [Ryan] The last banning Hans talks about is much more recent. 
[00:22:07.73] [Hans Niemann] After the game against Magnus-- obviously, Magnus puts his tweet, clearly some insinuations-- and then everyone starts to pile. I get an email from chess.com saying that they've privately removed access to my chess.com account. 
[00:22:21.56] [Ryan] The standout detail of this third banning is that unlike the other two instances, Hans doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He even calls it an attack. 
[00:22:30.32] [Hans Niemann] Unfortunately now, there has been a targeted attack, and this is after I have already fully admitted. And they have the best cheat detection in the world. They know that I'm not a cheater and that I have given-- I give everything to chess. I work so hard, and I-- chess is my entire life. Okay? Now, if they are going to try to think that I'm going to be silent about what has happened, it is completely ridiculous. 
[00:22:52.67] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:22:58.15] [Ryan] I honestly find it hard not to believe him. The way he talks is just very convincing to me. 
[00:23:04.75] [Jess] See, and I just think he's a narcissist. I don't know if I believe anything he says, and I really just feel at this point that I don't know what to believe. 
[00:23:13.37] [Ryan] Regardless of whatever your opinions on cheating are, I think the prudent facts here are that, yes, Hans has cheated online, and, yes, he says he was just a kid when he did it. And most importantly for our purposes, this all happened online. There's more on this to come, but chronology matters, so a pin in this for now. 
[00:23:34.09] [Jess] Put the chess.com cheating revelation together with why Magnus is withdrawing from the rest of the Sinquefield Cup after losing to Hans and you get a better picture of what's happening between the lines. Hikaru thinks that Magnus is accusing Hans of cheating in their round three over-the-board game, without actually saying the words. 
[00:23:53.53] [Ryan] This distinction is actually quite important, because there's a $400-million lawsuit still to come that basically hinges on this exact moment. 
[00:24:04.12] [Jess] And Hikaru is not the only one to weigh in immediately on the withdrawal with a thinly veiled implication. This is what the Director General of FIDE, Emil Sutovsky, tweeted 25 minutes after Magnus' original tweet. Quote, "No matter how his tournaments went, Magnus Carlsen never quit. He must have had a compelling reason, or at least he believes he had it. Don't call him a sore loser or disrespectful. I shall not speculate on the reasons of his withdrawal but probably would expect the Tournament Director to air them," end quote. 
[00:24:39.14] [Ryan] The Tournament Director for the Sinquefield Cup is Tony Rich. He's also the Executive Director of the Saint Louis Chess Club. Disappointingly, he doesn't really talk about the reasons for Magnus' withdrawal. 
[00:24:50.99] [Tony Rich] Magnus' decision to withdraw from the event are his personal decisions, and until he makes a public statement on the matter, we feel it's best to honour his wishes, and we've accepted the fact that he's withdrawn from the event, as well. I think, ultimately, it's Magnus' decision to come out and give his reasons. I don't want to put words in his mouth, so I'll let him speak on his own behalf. 
[00:25:08.91] [Jess] However, he does say this. 
[00:25:11.51] [Tony Rich] Since Magnus made the decision to withdraw before the halfway point of the tournament, his results in the previous games will be annulled, and his results against future opponents, the games just won't occur. So it's in essence, this is a tournament of nine players and the results will be out of eight points total. So each day, one player, whoever would have faced Magnus, will have a bye, a zero-point bye for the round, and at the end we will see who the victor is based out of eight games. 
[00:25:36.41] [Ryan] This is the exact reason that we covered the difference between OTB and online chess. The Sinquefield Cup is, again, an over-the-board event, and is governed by the International chess regulatory body known as FIDE, or... 
[00:25:50.45] [Nikki Bel] Federation Internationale des Echecs. 
[00:25:53.30] [Ryan] Thank you, Nikki Bel of forvo.com. 
[00:25:56.30] FIDE is like the UN of chess. It has no allegiance to one particular country and is the impartial enforcer of chess rules to keep the game fair and unified. 
[00:26:06.74] [Jess] Here's a clip from Emilia Castelao, a chess historian, who spoke to us about FIDE, among other things. You'll hear the rest of her interview in a later episode. 
[00:26:16.01] [Emilia Castelao] FIDE is the international governing body of chess. They set the standard for how chess is played, and they also manage the ELO rating system, which determines player titles, so, like, Grandmaster, International Master, Women's Grandmaster, so on and so forth. It's kind of hard because the channels sometimes to accuse someone of cheating, like, through FIDE are sometimes unclear and confusing. And so it overall, I think, was just a very foggy situation in regards to where FIDE stood. 
[00:26:54.72] [Jess] On the other side of the aisle is online chess. There's hundreds of chess websites, but the biggest one right now is chess.com. We already talked about them. That's the website Hans says his account got cancelled on after his allegations of cheating in the game with Magnus. 
[00:27:09.69] Chess.com has been gobbling up other chess websites left, right, and centre over the last few years, and at the time of the Sinquefield Cup, the next acquisition on the horizon is the website Play Magnus. If you can't guess from the name, Magnus Carlsen has a vested interest in this. 
[00:27:26.47] [Ryan] So why does this matter? Well, it matters because the cheating that Hikaru is pointing to, or at least that Hikaru thinks Magnus is suggesting, is from Hans' defunct chess.com account. But herein lies the problem. Chess.com and FIDE are totally separate. It's a logical fallacy to say Hans cheated online; therefore, he cheats over the board. 
[00:27:51.67] [Jess] It's kind of like saying, I fibbed a little when I filed my taxes; therefore, I am a bank robber. Both of these things are about money, but these are different institutions, and also one is way more serious than the other. 
[00:28:06.02] [Ryan] I think the real question we should be asking here is if there was real proof that Hans cheated over the board, why would Magnus even bring up the fact that Hans cheated online? 
[00:28:16.39] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:28:18.49] [Jess] It's safe to say that at the official end of day two of this scandal, we're just totally rocked. The unprecedented withdrawal by Magnus Carlsen that says nothing and everything, the comments from the event coordinators as well as from other players and streamers, Hans's admission of online cheating in his post-game interview-- this was a big day, to say the least. 
[00:28:42.99] [Music fades] 
[00:28:46.73] This is what GM, Grandmaster, Wesley So says the aftermath felt like. 
[00:28:52.79] [Wesley So] It was hard for me to sleep last night because of the drama and whether whatever is happening is true or not. 
[00:29:00.20] I remember six years ago, 2016, all the top players were just preparing on classical chess-- classical chess and all that. But now we have online, we have rapid, blitz, and now we have all this drama. So it just makes it a bit difficult to concentrate. 
[00:29:17.57] [Ryan] And yet somehow the rest of the Sinquefield Cup continues and finishes somewhat normally. And the chess world, still astir with rumours and allegations, is left in limbo, waiting to see what will happen next, and when the other shoe will drop. 
[00:29:34.73] [Shoe drops] 
[00:29:35.84] [Jess] There's still a lot of rumblings in the days after the events of the Sinquefield Cup, but they're mostly within the bounds of the chess community. Some people are siding with Hans, others are siding with Magnus, but no one really knows what's happening. 
[00:29:50.55] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:29:51.03] And amidst the fog of trying to sort out what the fuck actually did happen, there's a lot of feelings. Some are enraged. Some are curious. Some are just trying to figure out how Hans could have even cheated. It feels like a big deal but no bigger than any of the other cheating scandals in chess history. And don't worry, we're going to cover Toiletgate in a later episode. 
[00:30:14.22] [European toilet flushes] 
[00:30:16.59] So sit tight. 
[00:30:17.94] [Ryan] Is that pun intended? 
[00:30:19.44] [Jess, playful voice] Maybe! 
[00:30:20.63] [Ryan laughs] 
[00:30:21.66] [Ryan] It sort of looks like the whole thing might just blow over and be forgotten in the shuffle of whatever controversy is to come next. That is, until the soon-to-be despot of Twitter chimes in. On September 8, Elon Musk tweets, quote, "Talent hits a target no one else can hit, genius hits a target no one can see," parentheses, "cause it's in ur butt," end quote. He credits Schopenhauer, who if you don't know, is a pessimistic philosopher from German romanticism. 
[00:30:56.10] [Jess] This is the tweet that sets off a veritable shit storm. 
[00:31:00.87] [Ryan, chuckling] Is that pun intended? 
[00:31:02.94] [Jess] You can just assume that all of my puns are intentional. 
[00:31:05.97] [Ryan chuckles] 
[00:31:06.84] [reporter 1] Chess has been in the news because of a huge cheating controversy. It's almost been part soap opera, part whodunnit, and we still don't know all the answers. 
[00:31:15.54] [reporter 2] There was recently a match where one of the players was accused of using anal beads to electronically stimulate the right answer for chess. Like-- 
[00:31:27.27] [Laughing] 
[00:31:28.03] Like, whoa! 
[00:31:29.07] [man] People were speculating that Niemann could have cheated with the use of vibrating anal beads which sounds ridiculous but it went absolutely viral. People talking about it people asking how he could have done it. 
[00:31:40.66] [Trevor Noah] I get why someone would use vibrating anal beads to cheat, you know, because even if you lose, you still kind of win, you know? 
[00:31:47.05] [Cheering and applause] 
[00:31:50.50] [Ryan] So how did this tweet get twisted into what everyone now knows as the anal bead theory? 
[00:31:56.98] [Jess] As is usually the case for shit on the internet, it's hard to trace the exact source. As far as our very professional research has turned up, backed by our team of hard-working, well-paid fact checkers who for sure exist, this theory got picked up because Musk was responding to a tweet that referenced a Reddit thread that joked-- we think it was a joke-- about how the only way Hans could have cheated was by using vibrating anal beads. So, ipso facto, news media was like, Elon said it-- it must be true. 
[00:32:34.33] [Stephen Colbert] Anal bead while, the chess world has been rocked by rumours of anal beads. 
[00:32:39.70] [Laughter] 
[00:32:40.66] They call it "casseling." 
[00:32:42.34] [Lex Fridman] I have anal beads that are communicating with Stockfish via Bluetooth. 
[00:32:47.23] [Levy Rozman] It's actually scary how many people think that's a real thing, by the way, which is the danger of the internet. 
[00:32:51.41] [Lex Fridman] I tend to believe that people believing a thing that's hilarious at scale will make that thing a reality. I'm with Elon on this. 
[00:33:00.81] [Jess] Pretty much overnight, the Hans-versus-Magnus cheating scandal is everywhere, and the headline is that, apparently, everyone thinks Hans did cheat, and he did it by shoving vibrating anal beads up his [bleep]. 
[00:33:14.98] Now, you might be thinking, how the fuck is that even possible? And we have an answer to that but-- you've already guessed it-- we're going to get way deeper in another episode. For now, here's a clip from Mike Boyd, like, Mike from Mike Tries Things on YouTube. We couldn't believe he wanted to talk to us either. 
[00:33:31.90] [Mike Boyd] Because it's so simple and so easy. Like, I never put it up my butt. I just had it in my pocket. I can feel it through my jacket. It's such a simple thing that people must have done this, especially when they're streaming the game live. 
[00:33:43.99] [Jess] We'll get into the rest of his interview in a later episode. 
[00:33:47.08] [Comical slide whistle plays] 
[00:33:49.77] [Jess] You know what you don't have to wait for, though? 
[00:33:52.08] [Upbeat music plays] 
[00:33:52.35] The opportunity to save 10% on your very own set of anal beads. 
[00:33:57.15] [Ryan] Thanks to naughtynorth.ca-- yes, they are proudly Canadian, just like us-- you can use the coupon code ROOKED, R-O-O-K-E-D, to save some of your hard-earned loonies and toonies. 
[00:34:11.13] [Jess] And if anal beads don't tickle your fanny-- oh, excuse me, I mean fancy-- they have a whole lot of other products that you might like. So fill your cart, because purchases over $69-- 
[00:34:23.18] [Ryan laughs] 
[00:34:24.18] [Ryan, singsongy] 69! 
[00:34:25.17] [Jess] --qualify for free nationwide shipping across this great country we call home. 
[00:34:29.98] [Ryan] This is not a gag, but you can purchase one of those at naughtynorth.ca. 
[00:34:34.95] [Jess laughs] 
[00:34:35.34] Seriously, though, you can really save 10% off your entire purchase by using the coupon code ROOKED at checkout. See what all the fuss is about anal beads, and let us know if your chess game improves. 
[00:34:47.91] [Jess] Visit naughtynorth.ca coupon code ROOKED. Okay, back to the scandal. 
[00:34:53.65] [Comical slide whistle plays] 
[00:34:56.43] [Ryan] All of a sudden, everyone with even a passing interest in chess becomes an armchair data analyst. There's a glut of people putting together quote-unquote reports that are quote-unquote analyzing quote-unquote not-cherry-picked data from Hans' game history that quote-unquote prove that he cheated more than he's admitted to. Everyone and their dog has an opinion on what happened, why Magnus withdrew, and if Hans actually cheated. 
[00:35:25.77] [Jess] If you really want to get into the specifics, Ryan, with the help of Reddit Chess, has put together an astonishingly comprehensive timeline of the events. Like, I really had to fight him to figure out the main things that mattered for this episode; otherwise, this would be, like, at least ten hours longer than it already is. Seriously, if you have any questions, go to rookedpodcast.xyz/timeline. That's rookedpodcast.xyz/timeline. 
[00:35:57.03] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:35:58.43] [Ryan] Something else really big happens on the same day Elon tweets that fateful tweet. Chess.com breaks its silence about the cheating scandal, and they're decidedly Team Magnus. This is their official statement from September 8th. Quote, "Dear chess community, the last few days have been tumultuous for many in the chess community. At this time, we have reached out to Hans Niemann to explain our decision to privately remove him from chess.com and our events. We have shared detailed evidence with him concerning our decision, including information that contradicts his statements regarding the amount and seriousness of his cheating on chess.com. We have invited Hans to provide an explanation and response with the hope of finding a resolution where Hans can again participate on chess.com. We want nothing more than to see the best chess players in the world succeed in the greatest events. We will always act to protect the integrity of the game that we all love," end quote. The tweet is credited to Danny Rensch, Chief Chess Officer at chess.com. 
[00:37:04.35] [Jess] Remember the name Danny Rensch. He's one of the parties named in that $400-million lawsuit that's still to come. 
[00:37:11.40] Chess.com officially wading in is a big deal, because as we've stated before, online chess is governed by websites like chess.com or whoever hosts it, and OTB chess, at this level, anyways, is governed by FIDE. So, again, if FIDE doesn't have anything to say about Hans' behaviour and/or the alleged cheating at the Sinquefield Cup, why is chess.com chiming in all of a sudden? 
[00:37:37.59] Sit tight. We'll have some more clues soon. 
[00:37:40.86] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:37:44.33] [Ryan] So, at this point, nothing really happens for over a week. Sure, there's still rumbling within the chess community regarding the Hans-Magnus affair, and the fallout of the anal beads thing takes up way more space on the airwaves, internet, and in the brains of anyone who even vaguely follows chess. That is, until the sixth round of the Julius Baer Generation Cup on September 19th 
[00:38:08.20] [Music fades] 
[00:38:09.50] This is an online event with a 16-player field and a $150,000 prize pot. Not too shabby for picking up differently shaped pieces from a square and putting them down on a different square repeatedly. 
[00:38:24.29] [Crickets chirping] 
[00:38:26.96] During this tournament, guess who is set to play Magnus in round 6. 
[00:38:31.37] [Jess] Is it Hans? 
[00:38:32.42] [Ryan] Nope! 
[00:38:33.38] [Jess] Oh. Umm, okay, who is it, then? 
[00:38:35.92] [Ryan] Oh, no, it is Hans. You were right. 
[00:38:37.81] [Jess] Okay. 
[00:38:38.44] So the way these online tournaments work is that each player has to stream themselves while playing, partly to ensure that they're not cheating, but also for spectators and commentators to see their reactions at different times throughout the game. Basically, it's for the entertainment value. 
[00:38:52.73] [Upbeat music plays] 
[00:38:53.15] [Ryan] All right, so the game begins. Hans has the white pieces this time and Magnus has the black. Hans plays a central pawn. Magnus plays a knight out. Normal move that can lead to, like, countless variations. It's all been seen many, many, many times before in high- and even low-level chess. Hans plays another central pawn. 
[00:39:14.13] Nothing strange so far, except you may be wondering why I'm going on about nothing dramatic in a podcast that is specifically about drama. Well, here it is. After Hans plays his second pawn out, Magnus immediately cuts his video feed while shocked onlookers begin to discuss what has just taken place. 
[00:39:33.75] [Jess] Interestingly. Hans seems relatively unfazed, judging from how he looks on camera. Unfortunately, he doesn't say anything, but here is a clip. 
[00:39:43.50] [Kaja Snare] The game started and Magnus has logged off. What has happened? 
[00:39:48.24] [David Howell] Magnus has resigned. 
[00:39:50.34] [Kaja Snare] Magnus has resigned the game against Hans Niemann. 
[00:39:54.15] [David Howell] Yes. At least, that's what it says in our transmission. 
[00:39:57.00] [Alejandro Ramirez] He made one move and resigned? 
[00:39:59.67] [David Howell] Yes. It looks that way. 
[00:40:03.27] [Kaja Snare] Wow! 
[00:40:04.41] [Ryan] If you're not exactly sure what happened, it's this. 
[00:40:07.29] [Cheerful music plays] 
[00:40:07.68] Magnus takes the loss on purpose, even though he's leading the tournament and it could potentially affect his overall score. He's just outright refusing to play Hans in any capacity. The difference from Sinquefield is that Magnus only resigned from this particular game and not the whole tournament. What's even more interesting is that there's still a possibility Magnus and Hans could meet up later in the tournament, as this is only the prelims. 
[00:40:37.53] Magnus ultimately ends up winning the tournament and Hans comes third. They don't face each other in any other games. 
[00:40:44.55] [Music fades] 
[00:40:46.26] [Jess] As a side note, you might ask yourself why Magnus didn't just resign from the game outright, or even before it began. We're pretty certain this is because a lot of these online tournaments require a player to make at least one move before resigning. It's just not really a possibility to withdraw before that. 
[00:41:04.53] [Ryan] Following Magnus' tournament victory, he gives his first interview since the Sinquefield Cup. He really doesn't say much. 
[00:41:11.92] [Kaja Snare] I think the whole world is wondering. Magnus, what was the reason you withdrew from that game? 
[00:41:17.00] [Magnus laughs] 
[00:41:18.30] [Magnus Carlsen] Yeah, unfortunately, I cannot-- cannot particularly speak on-- on that. But, you know, people can draw their own conclusion, and they certainly-- certainly have. And I have to say I'm very impressed by Niemann's play, and I think his mentor, Maxim Dlugy, must be doing a great job. 
[00:41:53.94] [Jess] The one interesting Timbit-- sorry, tidbit-- my Canadianness is showing-- to come out of this interview is something that the average, non-fanatic chess watcher would absolutely overlook: 
[00:42:05.00] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:42:05.49] Magnus' name drop of Maxim Dlugy. It's debatable whether Maxim Dlugy is actually Hans' mentor. Hans will later clarify that he had one three-hour session with Dlugy, which I think we can all agree does not a mentor make. But in an earlier July 14th photo from Dlugy's Facebook page, he congratulates his quote-unquote "student"-- his words-- Hans Niemann for breaking top 50 in the world and being awarded the Samford Fellowship. 
[00:42:34.98] So maybe at one point Hans considered him a mentor. In any case, he has a good reason to distance himself from Dlugy now because-- do you want to guess why? If you said because Dlugy has also been banned from chess.com for cheating, then you were right! You get a cookie! 
[00:42:52.76] [Kids cheering emphatically] 
[00:42:55.19] [Ryan] I honestly think it should be something better than a cookie. 
[00:42:57.74] [Jess sighs] 
[00:42:58.25] [Jess] Okay, you get to pick out of the kids' prize bucket at the pediatric dentist. Is that better? 
[00:43:02.76] [Ryan] Yeah. I guessed right, so I got a broken kazoo and a Paw Patrol sticker. 
[00:43:08.15] [Warbly kazoo plays discordantly] 
[00:43:16.47] [Jess] Okay, that seems not better than a cookie. But anyways, we're going to get into what Dlugy probably considers the nuance of his cheating in episode two, but for now, maybe Hans and Dlugy have a relationship. Maybe they don't. Obviously, the commonality here-- cheating on chess.com-- is something Hans is trying to distance himself from, and something Magnus seems intent to pin on him, however veiled his attempts are. 
[00:43:41.81] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:43:44.96] [Ryan] Fast forward a week to September 26th. Magnus finally releases a statement of value. This is what it reads. Quote, "Dear chess world, at the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I made the unprecedented professional decision to withdraw from the tournament after my round-three game against Hans Niemann. A week later during the Champions Chess Tour, I resigned against Hans Niemann after playing only one move. I know that my actions have frustrated many in the chess community. I'm frustrated. I want to play chess. I want to continue to play chess at the highest level in the best events. I believe that cheating in chess is a big deal and an existential threat to the game. I also believe that chess organizers and all those who care about the sanctity of the game we love should seriously consider increasing security measures and methods of cheat detection for over-the-board chess. 
[00:44:40.37] When Niemann was invited last minute to the 2022 Sinquefield Cup, I strongly considered withdrawing prior to the event. I ultimately chose to play. I believe that Niemann has cheated more, and more recently, than he has publicly admitted. His over-the-board progress has been unusual, and throughout our game in the Sinquefield Cup, I had the impression that he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do. This game contributed to changing my perspective. 
[00:45:17.31] We must do something about cheating, and for my part going forward, I don't want to play against people that have cheated repeatedly in the past, because I don't know what they are capable of doing in the future. There is more that I would like to say. Unfortunately, at this time I am limited in what I can say without explicit permission from Niemann to speak openly. So far I have only been able to speak with my actions, and those actions have stated clearly that I am not willing to play chess with Niemann. I hope that the truth on this matter comes out, whatever it may be. Sincerely, Magnus Carlsen, World Chess Champion," end quote. 
[00:45:54.25] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:45:55.09] [Jess] This is a big statement with some bold accusations. The biggest seems to be that Magnus is outright calling Hans out for cheating, without tiptoeing, hinting, or forcing people to read between the lines. He's declaring without any uncertainty that he thinks Hans is a cheater, he's cheated more than he's admitted to, and there is no place for cheating in chess. 
[00:46:20.40] [Music fades] 
[00:46:23.72] [Ryan] This is what author Brin-Jonathan Butler-- a guest you'll hear from next episode-- had to say about Magnus' reaction. And, spoiler, he has a lot of insight about Magnus, because Magnus is the topic of one of his books. 
[00:46:37.34] [Brin Jonathan Butler] Historically, Magnus Carlsen has not called out everybody who's beat him. I don't think he's ever done it before, to say that they were assisted in beating him, except in this instance, and this guy has a history of cheating. So it seems to reflect much more on Hans Niemann than it does on Magnus Carlsen's character, in my view. 
[00:46:54.35] [Jess] Magnus is still playing some things close to the chest, like the fact that he says he allegedly considered dropping out of the Sinquefield Cup as soon as he heard that Hans was being last-minute invited. This implies that Magnus has harboured doubts about Hans' honesty for a while, and it also distances him from the idea that he rage quit from the Sinquefield Cup after losing. He's making it seem like the withdrawal was premeditated. But would he have withdrawn if he'd beaten Hans? 
[00:47:23.49] [Cheerful music plays] 
[00:47:23.94] [Ryan] In this universe, we don't know the answer to that question. But I like to think that on our alternate-universe podcast, where Hans and Magnus actually wanted to talk to us, we all sit down together and really get to the bottom of this. And also in that universe, I have 20% less grey hair than I do now, and I get to eat all of the hot sauce I want, and I don't have high cholesterol and blood pressure. 
[00:47:50.15] [Jess laughs] 
[00:47:51.54] [Jess] I think that you have the right amount of grey hair, but wish you didn't have high cholesterol. 
[00:47:57.18] A detail that I find hilarious in this statement is that Magnus, A, implies he's holding back, and B, wants permission from Hans to speak openly? Maybe this is just a cultural gap and I'm a dumb Canadian, but I think calling someone out for being a cheater is pretty fucking open, no? 
[00:48:15.60] The chess Twitterverse explodes when this statement drops. 
[00:48:19.38] [Birds twittering] 
[00:48:20.33] [Loud explosion] 
[00:48:22.23] Twitter user @chessproblem tweets, quote, "Okay, but can you be clearer?" end quote. 
[00:48:28.41] [Jess] GM Maurice Ashley tweets, quote, "Magnus finally states he believes Hans has cheated but there are many questions still hanging in the air. It's mystifying why he needs Hans to give him permission to say more after dropping bombs on the young man's head. Will the full truth ever come out? Sad time for chess," end quote. 
[00:48:50.37] [Ryan] @tarjeijs tweets, quote, "Pretty sure that Niemann will never play a game of chess against Carlsen again. That kind of limits his opportunities in top tournaments," end quote. 
[00:49:02.31] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:49:02.75] [Jess] And then it explodes all over again on October 4th, when chess.com releases the Hans Niemann Report. We're not kidding. That's literally what they titled it. This impressive 72-page report contains the chess.com findings on Hans Niemann's play on the website over the course of his career. If you don't want to read, like, 20 pages and look at 50 pages of graphics that don't really make sense unless you're a mathematician, their conclusion is this: 
[00:49:29.54] [Music fades] 
[00:49:30.56] Hans has cheated way more online than he's admitted to, and that's why he's been banned. Chess.com states that they were not pressured by Magnus to ban Hans, nor did Magnus pressur chess.com to revoke Hans' access to play any tournaments that he was already scheduled to play in in the future. 
[00:49:47.81] [Ryan] The one thing that's conspicuously missing from this report is any evidence that really nails Hans to the wall. But short of Hans admitting to cheating, this is as close as we can possibly get. 
[00:50:00.74] Chess.com presents the argument that it seems very likely that Hans has been cheating, and they make some comments about Hans' quote-unquote "unprecedented rise in ratings." But in the entire report, chess.com makes a point to not address any OTB cheating, explicitly stating that OTB is not in their purview. 
[00:50:20.48] [Jess] We're going to dig into the report later on. But for now, here's two quotes that really stand out. First from page five. Quote, "Overall, we have found that Hans has likely cheated in more than 100 online chess games, including several prize money events. He was already 17 when he cheated in some of these matches and games. He was also streaming in 25 of these games," end quote. 
[00:50:46.85] Next is from page 8. Quote, "Chess.com's online cheating detection system is well known. In our 15-plus year history, it has been used to close the accounts of many non-professional online players, hundreds of titled players, dozens of GMs. It has elicited cheating confessions from four players in the FIDE top 100. To quote Hans himself: They, chess.com, have the best cheat detection in the world," end quote. 
[00:51:17.34] [Ryan] By the way this report is signed off by chess.com co-founder and CEO at the time Erik Allebest, the Fair Play Team at chess.com, and that guy we told you earlier to remember. 
[00:51:28.42] [Cheerful music plays] 
[00:51:28.83] Did you remember? 
[00:51:30.48] [Jess] If you did remember, this time the prize bucket gives you a bouncy ball you immediately lose and a slinky that does not slink. 
[00:51:38.46] [Ryan] For those of you who did not win a delightful prize, it's Danny Rensch, Chief Chess Officer of chess.com. Again, he'll be in the lawsuit when we get to it. Try to remember him this time. 
[00:51:50.16] [Jess] The chess.com report is met with scepticism and laughter, but also, there's some fairly convincing data. More than anything, it really shows chess.com's hand. Clearly, they're trying to shine a light on Hans Niemann's past cheating. It's hard to see the report as anything but retaliatory. 
[00:52:09.96] Hans opened a can of worms by going public about his account being banned in the wake of Sinquefield, and chess.com is finally breaking their silence. They're dragging Hans forward being an out-and-out liar. 
[00:52:21.97] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:52:23.50] [Jess] In the next two weeks after the report, there's drama, but it's not as significant in the bigger picture. Magnus faces a withdrawal of his own, a king gets beheaded-- 
[00:52:33.49] [Ryan] In the game of chess, not in real life. 
[00:52:35.56] [Jess] Yeah, it's business as usual in the kingdom of chess. Until October 20th when the news breaks via Twitter that Hans is filing a complaint against Magnus, Play Magnus, chess.com, Danny Rensch, and Hikaru Nakamura. 
[00:52:48.81] [Music fades] 
[00:52:49.96] The allegations he lays out include slander, libel, civil conspiracy, and violation of the Sherman Act, whatever that is. Honestly, the drama written into what would normally be a very boring legal document rivals even what we've done so far in this episode, and I don't think we've been undramatic. 
[00:53:08.84] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:53:09.22] Bottom line, it's a ridiculously large sum, and this again draws headlines and eyeballs from the chess and even non-chess communities. 
[00:53:17.74] [Ryan] There's lots more to say about this lawsuit, but unfortunately, neither of us are lawyers or even anything close to legal experts. 
[00:53:25.33] [Jess] I mean, I personally have watched a lot of Law & Order. 
[00:53:28.27] [Law & Order "dun-dun" plays] 
[00:53:29.41] But as we mentioned before, we do have some real experts who are going to help us fill in a lot of the blanks. Here's a clip from Professor David Franklin. He's an Associate Professor of Law who agreed to speak to us about the lawsuit. He also loves chess and is a great player. 
[00:53:45.04] [David Franklin] Well, this is what makes this scandal such an interesting and, dare I say, pod-worthy story, because I really don't know. And I think anyone who says that they do know other than Hans himself or his confidants, if he has any, I just think those people shouldn't be trusted, because nobody knows. 
[00:54:05.83] [Jess] We'll hear more from David in our episode on the lawsuit, so for all you legal buffs out there, get excited and hang tight. 
[00:54:12.58] In the meantime, I just want to take us down a little avenue, because there's a few other scandals that happen around the same time as Magnus and Hans have their spat, but neither of them are directly involved. See, I very quickly got frustrated by the fact that, up until this point, this story, and so then by extension this podcast, doesn't pass the Bechdel test, meaning there are no women speaking to other women about a topic that is not men. The Bechdel test is by no means the high watermark for good feminist content, but the reason I'm bringing this up is because there are no women in this story so far. Period. And I'm a woman and a feminist, so I was just like, why? Why is that? 
[00:54:57.10] Yeah, I love chess, but I'm also a feminist and it's really unfortunate that it's still a predominantly male-centric sport. Women just have not really been given the chance to participate the same way men have. And that's not to say that women don't play chess. There's some really great female, trans, and non-binary players who have and continue to revolutionize the game. But chess has a history of being a sexist sport, and as we'll get to in later episodes, we'll see that it still remains a very sexist sport. 
[00:55:28.18] [Jess] Here's a clip from Julia Rios and JJ Lang. They host the chessfeels podcast. We love them. And they had a lot to say when we spoke to them about feminism and intersectionality in chess. 
[00:55:40.81] [Julia Rios] But it is interesting how any time I try to talk about it online, or point it out, I will receive a large number of men telling me that there is no sexism in chess. So, I mean, I definitely wouldn't say, oh, it's a thing that we all agree on. But it does seem fairly obvious. 
[00:56:02.17] [JJ Lang] I think there's absolutely raging misogynists in chess. What's worrisome is that for every raging misogynist, there's probably dozens, if not hundreds of men who play chess who vaguely agree that, like, it would be cool if those raging misogynists weren't such raging misogynists, but also take utter offence at the suggestion that anything they do or could do would make the chess space less safe for women, or even the idea that, like, the reason more women don't play chess is because there's any problems with the space as a whole and not just with this one bad individual. 
[00:56:38.12] [Jess] You'll hear more from Julia and JJ in a later episode. 
[00:56:40.90] [Cheerful music plays] 
[00:56:41.36] In the time since Hans and Magnus' dispute kicked off at Sinquefield, there's been a number of troubling revelations that have come to light in the chess community, but also rampant misogyny and deeply disturbing allegations of sexual assault from well-known players in positions of power. And while on the Magnus v. Hans thing is causing a lot of divisiveness and negativity amongst the community, the silver lining that everyone seems to agree on is that it's allowed the opportunity for a light to be shone on the grossness and depravity lurking in the shadows. 
[00:57:14.93] We owe it to the women who have been abused by this sport to tell their stories, from inappropriate game commentary to criminal acts. Women are not being treated equally or equitably in chess, and it needs to be talked about. 
[00:57:30.12] Here's a quote from Ben Johnson, who hosts the Perpetual Chess Podcast. You're going to hear more from him later in the series. 
[00:57:37.23] [Ben Johnson] Something needed to happen. There did need to be a triggering event for cheating to be taken more seriously. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Bringing it to light will help eventually solve the problem. 
[00:57:47.97] [Sombre electronic music plays] 
[00:57:49.98] [Ryan] We've covered a lot of ground here. But basically this is the story. Two dudes play a chess game. One guy says the other guy cheated, and the guy being accused says, "Nuh-uh." That, along with everything else we've just told you, are the basic facts. And if you think that's all you need to know, then great. You can just stop listening here. 
[00:58:14.44] [Music fades] 
[00:58:16.21] [Sinister synth music plays] 
[00:58:16.66] [Jess] But believe us when we say that this story is bigger than what we can fit into just this one episode, and it deserves more than just our voices. That's why we pestered everyone we could think of to give us their opinions and expertise about not just these events but also what's going to happen to this game that some of us really love and some of us really love to talk about. 
[00:58:39.63] [Ryan] There's still a lot more to say here, about the players, the cheating, the lawsuit, the game, the psychology, the misogyny, and the future. And we're going to talk about all of that and then some. 
[00:58:52.98] [Jess] We want to try and figure out who the real villain here is, and failing that, what the future of chess is going to look like, because these events that we've just told you are changing the course of the sport. And it remains to be seen whether that's for better or worse. 
[00:59:11.29] [Hikaru Nakamura, synthesized voice with reverb] Wait, what the heck? 
[00:59:13.85] [Rooked outro plays] 
[00:59:17.21] [Ryan] In the next episode of Rooked, we do a deep dive into the main players of this controversy and attempt to figure out if what we know about Hans and Magnus as people can give us any insight into their motives and what the real truth might be. 
[00:59:33.19] [Jess] Rooked: The Cheaters' Gambit is written and produced by me, Jess Schmidt. 
[00:59:37.18] [Ryan] And by me, Ryan Webb. 
[00:59:39.25] [Jess] Our amazing music is by the ever-talented Lorna Gilfedder. 
[00:59:43.18] [Ryan] Our executive producers are Rooney and Indigo. 
[00:59:47.14] [both] Speak! 
[00:59:47.82] [Rooney and Indigo howling] 
[00:59:50.58] [Music fades] 
[00:59:52.03] [Jess] This podcast is recorded on the traditional Treaty 7 territory of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which includes the land of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Piikani, as well as the Stoney Nakoda and the Tsuut-ina Nations. 
[01:00:04.24] [Ryan] We acknowledge that this territory is home to the Metis Nation of Alberta, Region 3 within the historical Northwest Homeland. In the spirit of respect, reciprocity, and truth, we honour and acknowledge all nations, Indigenous and non, who live, work, and play on this land, and who honour and celebrate this territory. 
[01:00:24.01] [Jess] This gathering place, and therefore this podcast, provides us with an opportunity to engage in and demonstrate reconciliation. The Government of Canada has not followed through on a number of the Calls to Action that have been suggested by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. One such action is for justice. In the city that we live in, Calgary or Mohkinstsis, Black and Indigenous people are disproportionately represented amongst the victims of deadly force by police officers compared to their share of the overall population. And this is the same across much of Canada. 
[01:00:58.44] If you want to learn more, we suggest you check out the documentary No Visible Trauma at novisibletrauma.com. Awareness is the first step, but holding your local police department accountable for perpetuating colonial violence is just one goal that needs to be achieved by allies to actually do the work of reconciliation. 
[01:01:20.84] [Music fades]